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	<title>Comments on: Google Print II</title>
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	<link>http://madisonian.net/2005/10/20/google-print-ii/</link>
	<description>a blog about law, tech, culture, and related things</description>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://madisonian.net/2005/10/20/google-print-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-20356</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madisonian.net/?p=384#comment-20356</guid>
		<description>Google&#039;s stock gets regularly compared to Time-Warner (a media company if ever there was one).  That&#039;s no basis for a legal argument, but who thinks Google isn&#039;t a media company?  One of the points of the opt-in Google Print program is to deliver content from books.  That&#039;s definitely competition with the publishers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google&#8217;s stock gets regularly compared to Time-Warner (a media company if ever there was one).  That&#8217;s no basis for a legal argument, but who thinks Google isn&#8217;t a media company?  One of the points of the opt-in Google Print program is to deliver content from books.  That&#8217;s definitely competition with the publishers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Madison</title>
		<link>http://madisonian.net/2005/10/20/google-print-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-20345</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Madison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madisonian.net/?p=384#comment-20345</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, but there are some subtle differences worth pointing out.

First, I think that it&#039;s fair to distinguish the TPM-like *effect* of the book form (it does tend to discourage copying) from the purposeful deployment of TPM technologies in electronic contexts.  The plaintiffs are making a sort of DMCA argument.  They seem to suggest that by choosing to publish their works as &quot;books,&quot; they are entitled to a presumption against &quot;circumvention&quot; of their &quot;technology.&quot;  That&#039;s both silly and wrong.  I understand that they&#039;re trying to distinguish Google Print (bad) from Google search (OK), but the distinction just doesn&#039;t hold up.  If it exists, it has to come from somewhere else.

Second, on the &quot;media company&quot; point, and speaking objectively, you&#039;re probably right (though I pause to note that there is a &quot;what is a media company?&quot; issue lurking here).  But the plaintiffs aren&#039;t interested in objectivity.  They&#039;re making a rhetorical point.  If Google is a &quot;media company,&quot; then it&#039;s a big, commercial, *competitor.*  And we know that big, commercial *competitors* aren&#039;t entitled to rely on fair use.  Don&#039;t we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, but there are some subtle differences worth pointing out.</p>
<p>First, I think that it&#8217;s fair to distinguish the TPM-like *effect* of the book form (it does tend to discourage copying) from the purposeful deployment of TPM technologies in electronic contexts.  The plaintiffs are making a sort of DMCA argument.  They seem to suggest that by choosing to publish their works as &#8220;books,&#8221; they are entitled to a presumption against &#8220;circumvention&#8221; of their &#8220;technology.&#8221;  That&#8217;s both silly and wrong.  I understand that they&#8217;re trying to distinguish Google Print (bad) from Google search (OK), but the distinction just doesn&#8217;t hold up.  If it exists, it has to come from somewhere else.</p>
<p>Second, on the &#8220;media company&#8221; point, and speaking objectively, you&#8217;re probably right (though I pause to note that there is a &#8220;what is a media company?&#8221; issue lurking here).  But the plaintiffs aren&#8217;t interested in objectivity.  They&#8217;re making a rhetorical point.  If Google is a &#8220;media company,&#8221; then it&#8217;s a big, commercial, *competitor.*  And we know that big, commercial *competitors* aren&#8217;t entitled to rely on fair use.  Don&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Goldman</title>
		<link>http://madisonian.net/2005/10/20/google-print-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-20344</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madisonian.net/?p=384#comment-20344</guid>
		<description>Good points, Mike.  I agree with you about books as a historical practice.  However, there may be a user interface issue here as well (easier to read content in print than electronically).  Also, I wouldn&#039;t diminish the role of print as a TPM-surrogate--this has been historically true, and it still plays a role today.  

Also, in my mind, there&#039;s no Q that Google is a media company and not &quot;merely&quot; a search engine.  Or, more precisely, I don&#039;t know what the difference is.  In my Emory article, I made the argument that search engines exercise editorial control over their database in a manner that&#039;s indistinguishable from the practices of other media companies.  

Eric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Mike.  I agree with you about books as a historical practice.  However, there may be a user interface issue here as well (easier to read content in print than electronically).  Also, I wouldn&#8217;t diminish the role of print as a TPM-surrogate&#8211;this has been historically true, and it still plays a role today.  </p>
<p>Also, in my mind, there&#8217;s no Q that Google is a media company and not &#8220;merely&#8221; a search engine.  Or, more precisely, I don&#8217;t know what the difference is.  In my Emory article, I made the argument that search engines exercise editorial control over their database in a manner that&#8217;s indistinguishable from the practices of other media companies.  </p>
<p>Eric.</p>
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