Comments on: Thought Experiment: Why Not A Teaching Law Firm To Increase Experiential Learning?

By: DS

DS — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:16:07 +0000

Another, probably uncomfortable thought from a practitioner: It is far easier to become a lawyer in the U.S. than it is a physician. Mainly that is because it is far more difficult to gain admission to medical school than to an accredited law school. The result, I think, is that the average licensed physician is intellectually superior by a long shot to the average licensed lawyer — smarter to begin with; better educated in part by virtue of having shared years of education in the company of other especially smart individuals; more disciplined intellectually as evidenced by having succeeded in a more rigorous educational environment. If the legal establishment guarded the gates as closely as the medical establishment does, the result would be better lawyers at least in the sense of intellectual capability.

By: Deven

Deven — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:36:22 +0000

Paul

Forgive the American trying to use a British term but I think “Spot on!” is the proper phrase here.

Thanks for the point. I knew a bout the contract system but not in any detail. I look forward to reading your papers too.

Best
Deven

By: Paul G

Paul G — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:10:25 +0000

As a lawyer practising in England it always struck me as unrealistic the idea that in the US lawyers emerge from law school fully formed.

In England, for those that don’t know, the typical path to qualification as a lawyer (solicitor) is an undergraduate degree (any subject), one or two years at law school (depending whether your undergraduate degree was in law or not) and a two year (paid) training contract at a law firm, where billable hours targets are considerably lower than for associates (1000 vs 1600, say). At the end of this process you will officially “qualify” as an associate and be added to the roll of solicitors (i.e. be allowed to dispense legal advice).

The training contract system, in my view, works very well and is designed to give trainees experience in different practice areas (typically 4, sometimes 6). It is only at the end of this process that the decisions as to (i) whether you’ll be “kept on” and (ii) what area of specialism you will practice in are made. It’s worth noting, thought, that retention rates amongst the big firms are typically upwards of 90%.

Even under the English sytem, many junior associates find the move from trainee to junior associate quite daunting as the level of responsibilty entrusted to juniors does tend to switch gear quite dramatically (as do the charge-out rates). But I’d imagine it’s much less of a jump than that of law school student to law firm associate in the US.

I think it is generally accepted that the system in England works well enough, though in recent years law firms have been pressurising law school providers (successfully) to offer bespoke courses more tailored to the work of particular firm (note that law firms tend to sponsor students through law school – so you may have 100 future trainees of a large firm at the same law school attending the classes their future firm wants them to).

“Teaching law firms”, therefore, is fairly close to what we’ve got in England already.